The Principal's Role in Collective Efficacy and Student Outcomes

Data-Driven Instruction, Technology Leadership

By: Kendell Hunter

Collective teacher efficacy remains one of the strongest known influences on student achievement, but new research points to what's driving it. A principal's sense of leadership efficacy shapes how much confidence teachers develop, which in turn shapes student achievement.

This session unpacks what the research says and gives district and building leaders a clear starting point for improving efficacy at every level.

You’ll learn:

How principal confidence links to collective teacher efficacy and student achievement
Specific practices principals can use to strengthen their own sense of efficacy
How building leaders can translate that confidence into stronger collective teacher belief schoolwide

Watch to see how these practices can move the needle on student outcomes in your district.

Hi there, and welcome to today's webinar, the principal's role in collective efficacy and student outcomes. My name is Kendall Hunter, and I'll be your moderator for today. I'm the senior director of marketing at Otus, but my roots are in the classroom. I'm a former middle school special education teacher and reading specialist, so I'm happy to be here with you all. I mentioned I'm with Otus, today's webinar sponsor. As a district or school leader joining us, I'm pretty confident that your teams are already gathering evidence about student learning. But a challenge we often see is with getting it into one place and actually putting it to use. Otus brings that evidence together, reports it in a way that everyone can understand, and helps leaders and teachers make decisions that move, student outcomes forward. So kind of thinking about our topic today, collective efficacy, there is absolutely power in your teams being able to see the impact of their work together. And we provide that foundation at Otus so you can both see what's working and then scale those systems across your schools. So as you get settled in, I just have a couple housekeeping items to run through, and then I will hand it off to our speakers from First Educational Resources. If you have any questions for us throughout our time together, please use the q and a feature. We will have dedicated time at the end, or we may address some questions live, but feel free to tee us up as we get started here. The chat is a great place to tell us what's coming up for you during the webinar. If you wanna go ahead and test it out now and say hello, please chat in, tell us your role, and what you're hoping to get out of today's conversation. When you logged in, you should have seen a resource list with some free takeaways. Be sure to check those out before you leave the webinar at the end of the hour. Couple downloads and guides to help you out there. And then the slide deck I saw was there as well. So if you wanna reference anything that Garth and Don, our speakers, talk about today, that final deck is in the resource list. Last but not least, this webinar is recorded, and you'll receive an email within twenty four hours that has that recording. So if you need to step away or if you wanna share this with a colleague afterwards to tell them about the great webinar you attended with Otus and First Education, you will be able to do so. So with that, I'm excited to hand it off to Garth Larson and Don Smith from First Educational Resources. I'll be back with y'all later in the session to help facilitate our q and a, but you have two incredible speakers here. Hi, Garth. Hi, Don. Thanks so much, Kendall. Yeah. Well, again, well, good afternoon to most of everyone joining, but also good morning if, some of our folks on the West Coast are still, are joining us right now. First and foremost, the focus on this webinar is the principal's role in collective efficacy and student outcomes, and really how as leaders do we continue to create the conditions for efficacy to be prevalent within our buildings. But just a quick intro to who I am and who Don is. So again, my name is Garth Larson. I am the cofounder and CEO at First Educational Resources. We are a professional development and consulting that works with schools all over the globe, primarily in in North America, around whatever initiative schools are focused on. So one of the things we really appreciate about the partnership that we have with Otus is we are able to come in and help schools take something like Otus and a great tool for data, great tool for, communication, and help teachers and leaders understand how to best use those tools to make this impact as we see here in the chat box. And I just wanna say, it's amazing seeing all of the people already chiming in on the chat box, Don, because this is gonna be really helpful as we get into today's webinar. Most importantly, though, just a little bit of educational background. I am a I still consider myself a recovering high school English speech and journalism teacher. But for this particular webinar, really wanna highlight the the fact that I am a former elementary principal. I was a principal in two different districts in Northeast Wisconsin, and then also had the chance to serve as a director of teaching and learning where we really got to dive in and look at how do we create those conditions for efficacy to be prevalent within a building. Don't wanna spend too much time on on myself right now, but I do wanna turn it over to Don who's gonna share a little bit of information. And I do wanna highlight one thing, that a lot of what we're gonna be talking about in this webinar comes from a new publication that Don just released called the confidence to lead. It is a fantastic resource where we really do look at that principal's role in developing collective efficacy within our buildings and, ultimately, how do we improve student outcomes. So, Don, you wanna give just a little background into, your experiences? Yeah. Definitely. It's it's definitely great to see everybody, and, I have the chat over on my left side. So it looks like I'm looking to the left because I'm looking at all of you, bringing the the where you're from in the chat, and we'd love to see all of you here. As you can see on there, was also a high school science teacher, then assistant principal and principal, and that is really the the lens that we'll be speaking to you today from is both Garth and I are our former principals, and now we get the honor of of working with principals in a variety of capacities around the country. So just super excited to be with you here, and thank you. I mean, we really have people from all over, which is fantastic. So excited. And I I just yeah. I love seeing the the variation of roles that we have here on this right now joining live and, again, just different locations within the Well, we do have a warm up activity, and this is why we're so glad that you're active in the chat right now is, we want you to answer this question. I'm just gonna put this statement up here. And then whatever comes to mind, we would love for you to put that in the chat box right now. And if you're if you're watching this after the live session, just kinda think and reflect on this a little bit. But we'd like you to finish this statement. I signed up to be a leader, but sometimes I feel I am more like a what? We're just gonna give everyone a chance to kinda go through these. They are coming in fast, Don. Yes. Are. Yes. Alright. I see firefighter. I see learner, therapist, firefighter. So fast. Manager, ringmaster. Yes. Jackpot. What do you see in here? A little bit of everything. It's going so fast. Adult babysitter. Referee. Super super fast. Chaos coordinator. I love that one as well. Yes. Chaos coordinator. Conductor, therapist. Teacher, parent to adults. Yes. Yes. You know, for for, for folks that are maybe considering leadership, Don, and they see this, I'm thinking, boy, that really gets me excited to become a leader. Yes. Yes. But we anticipated what we might see here, and and, there's a couple slides that we thought we would see, and let's just see if there's a connection here. So this is the first one. So maybe for for those of maybe the more veteran leaders on this, this is Magnum PI. For the younger leaders, you can look it up, but, private investigator. We also saw this one in here. So we have the therapist. We noticed that in there. We also have this one potentially when we think about these roles. This was kind of my my transition from being a secondary AP to an elementary principal. And then, of course, we always get this one as well that we often feel like we're a firefighter. And so I guess the the question becomes that we want you to think about is is why are these our responses? You know, why is it that when we put something out there like this that we feel like a manager, manager, a a pastor, pastor, a a a nurse, a politician, counselor, everything? Why is that the case? And I I think the reality that we all have to think about as leaders is when when we want to be an effective or impactful leader, that means many different things to many different people. So if we think about as leaders our different stakeholder groups that we serve, you know, being an effective leader to a, you know, group of parents might look a little bit different than the staff that we lead, which obviously looks a little bit different maybe than, you know, the the students that we serve. And so one thing that sometimes this leads to is that we become to we we we tend to drift a little bit. You know, drift around what are the things that matter the most for us as leaders. And I can tell you, when I look through this list in the chat box, I would have answered exactly the same way. Don, I'm sure you would have answered exactly the same way because those are the realities that we face as leaders. But those are also sometimes the things that prevent us from keeping our eyes on those things that matter the most. And that's really where we're gonna go with this. Our goal for today is to really start to kind of recalibrate a little bit around what our primary focus is as leaders and what are some things that we can do to be able to ultimately maximize the impact for our students in our buildings. And, you know, when we think about the whole focus of this particular webinar, it is, you know, the principal's role within collective efficacy, which we're gonna talk about. What is collective efficacy and why does that matter so much? But then how does that also impact the outcomes of our students? Because, ultimately, our goal is we wanna make sure our kids are learning within our buildings. What we would say is when we get responses like that like that of therapist, firefighter, chaos controller, ringmaster, politician, whatever it may be, it just means that at some point, we start to lose a little bit of clarity on what we're trying to accomplish. Our goal from this particular session is to just give you a little extra clarity, give you a little little something to think about. And as Don mentioned at the beginning, we're here to just offer a perspective on this work. There are a lot of fantastic thought leaders out there around collective efficacy, around what the leader's role within that, and, ultimately, how do we improve student outcomes. We're just here to offer a perspective, but it is very heavily grounded in a lot of evidence and research on on what does impact in schools. So the first thing we wanna start with and, Don, I'm gonna actually turn it over to you just for this, part of it. But do you wanna just share a little bit around, collective efficacy, the the the background behind, the visible learning research, and then ultimately, you know, the fact that, collective teacher efficacy is the highest effect of what takes place in schools. Certainly. Thank you, Garth. I think we'll do this very quick and very brief because assuming many of you already potentially have a background. But as we know, John Hattie has taken a look at all the different factors that say, many of the factors that can influence student learning. And he is looking at all the studies around them and and synthesize which one would what are the ones that what are their impacts that they have on on teaching and learning in general. Right? And so then he he came up with the the way to so we can kind of rank and sort them, which is then how we get these effect sizes. And we know the hinge point is your your average year one years of growth in one year's time, or, like, one year of kind of being in school as we kinda think through that. So you get a chance to jump on his website, we always recommend checking out Visible Learning Meta X because it has fantastic resources to take a look at it. But the number one factor that influences student achievement, as you can see on there, is the collective teacher efficacy with the effect size of 1.34. So that's the one that always kinda jumps out and pops out. And in a second, we'll get to the definition, but we'll tell you that it's been number one on on the list for a while, and is we always recommend you check out Jay Donahue as well who has been coined as the queen of collective efficacy because her research and her writing around it has been absolutely fantastic. But collective efficacy, while it continues to be number one, it continues to be probably the thing that is one one of the most widely misunderstood things in education. A lot of people are focusing on on collective efficacy, trying to work on collective efficacy, and they're not seeing that. That 1.34 is supposed to represent three years' worth of growth. But how many schools are truly seeing three years' worth of growth as a result of their their work around collective efficacy. So this is I'm so excited about this. We'll dive into principles a little bit, but, that's one of those kind of one of the most misunderstood ones of, what does that really mean? So you wanna jump in the definition, Garth? Yeah. So our our focus here is to just give you a little bit of understanding of what actually is collective teacher efficacy so we don't have that misunderstanding or misrepresentation. But then what are some things that actually lead to it? And then, again, what is your role as principal? So when we really take and break this down into a definition that I that I think hopefully will kind of make it so we can wrap our minds around this is it's really this this overwhelming power that groups have to here's a couple key phrases. Impact change when they share the belief, and the belief is a key phrase within this definition, in their ability to solve problems and overcome challenges. Now I know as a former principal, a director of teaching and learning, you know, when I think about this idea of this definition, be like, okay. So let me get this straight. The number one thing that's gonna influence what happens in our schools is our own beliefs. Our beliefs as a system that we can impact change and overcome, you know, potential barriers that we see them. And I and I think about this because, this is kinda where it in my opinion, and I know Don, what he just shared, where this definition maybe gets a little bit misapplied in terms of what it means. Because if I were a principal and I just went up to to the staff that I was leading, I just said, you know what? You just all need to have a little bit of a better belief about yourself and each other, and our kids are magically gonna learn more. I don't think I would get the best reception to that because, ultimately, our teachers do believe that what they're doing is is the best to make a difference. It's a matter of though, do we have a shared collective belief that no matter what challenge we face, we can overcome that challenge? Now that, as we said, doesn't magically happen. So as Don referenced, Jenny Donohue and then a couple of her colleagues, Tim O'Leary and John Hattie himself were a part of this. They started to look at what are some key conditions that if prevalent within a building can lead to a higher or stronger sense of collective teacher efficacy. Now, again, this isn't necessarily, like, just measuring it, but these when these factors are prevalent, there is a likelihood increase that there's going to be a higher sense of of efficacy within that building. And those five conditions again, so instead of just saying, hey. We need to have a better belief. As principals, we're responsible to help create the conditions for our teachers to have that collective belief. So the first big condition is teacher empowerment. So the teachers feel empowered in the decision making processes that are taking place within the building. The second one, embedded reflective practice. And I know I know when I was a building principal, we did not create enough time and opportunity for this. That there has to be embedded reflective practice to be able to look at what we're doing in our buildings and see, does it make a difference for our students? The third, goal consensus, that we are part of this entire process around the goals that we're working toward so we can make sure that we have this shared belief around what that end outcome looks like. Fourth, cohesive teacher knowledge, that there's a shared understanding of the teaching practices within a building that lead to the impact we wanna see in our students. And then the last one, supportive leadership. And I say this a little bit, kinda just quickly, but allow these things to happen. Allow these conditions to be prevalent within a building, which then creates that stronger sense of efficacy. So just like in other things, we have to make sure first hopefully, first takeaway for you as building level leaders or district level leaders is collective efficacy just doesn't magically happen. That belief system doesn't magically happen. We have to make sure that we create the conditions that create that sense of belief that together, they will make a difference for every single student. Yeah. Garth, so I'm just gonna as as Garth said there, I think that's the key of if look at that definition that was a couple of slides ago, you don't have to go back to Garth. We'll just stay here. But it doesn't say you have the the ability to solve the problems, but it says that you have the belief in the ability. So that's one of the big also misconceptions out there is that if we don't have the ability to meet the needs of our students right now, we won't be able to. That's not what this means. It means that you believe in each other, that together, you're gonna be able to figure it out and solve problems. You may actually do more research. You may have to learn something new. But it's the when you look around the table of your team, it's that, do you believe together you can do it? But then as Garth said, the other biggest misconception about it is if if we just focus on collective efficacy, it's gonna fix everything. But the reality is, what does that even mean? Like, what are we what are we focusing on? And that's where, Jenny and her colleagues here, as you can see, when they did this study around what are the things that have be in place to build it, this was the key. So if you're looking for a place to start around collective efficacy, we always recommend you check out these five enabling conditions because these are five things you as a principal and leader in your building can work on to build collective collective efficacy in general. So Now there is a there's a a reality check that we're gonna share with all of you right now around this. Because, again, collective efficacy, we think it's it's pertaining to the teachers, which it is, but it starts with us. And I'm gonna share a a statement. I had the great fortune, a few years ago of being able to, present with professor Hattie at a leadership conference in Michigan and actually had some some time in a vehicle with him, about three hours, where I was just able to kinda listen, learn, ask a lot of questions, and just get to know him. First of all, he's a fantastic human being, you know, and and his work has trans I think transformed how we look at impact in our schools. But he said said something during the drive, and then he he reiterated this actually in his keynote the next day, which says school leaders are responsible for the culture and climate in every class and across school. And I just want you to think about that for a second because when we think about this idea of collective efficacy and we think about our role, well, everything does start with us. It it really does. I used to think as a principal, you know what? I was responsible for the culture and climate of the building, but I didn't necessarily thought think about the fact that that also means I'm responsible for every single thing that happens in the classroom. I'm responsible for what's taking place. And that sometimes can feel like a pretty heavy lift, but also, I think then that comes down to what are our own beliefs in ourselves. And that's really where we're gonna go with the the rest of this webinar is what are our our own beliefs about our ability to impact change and create those conditions? And so when we kinda think about where we're going, it really does start with us as leaders, which is gonna be a great transition now into this idea of leader efficacy. So as mentioned, Don, who's gonna kinda talk here for a little bit on this, has spent a lot of time looking at you know, we have all of this this work done around collective teacher efficacy, but how do we build our own, efficacy as leaders, and how do we have that confidence to lead the change that we want to within our buildings? Yeah. Thank you, Garth. I think the the question in the chat right away, it says, like, how does this fit into, the district level staff? I know we'll we'll touch on that in just a little bit as well when we talk about, district office kinda level leadership as we think about it. But, obviously, the collective efficacy part we just talked about, that in itself can be a full day of PD, just talking about the five enabling conditions and and digging into them. But today, we're trying to focus on the the leadership efficacy, which is what we're gonna be diving into with you guys. But just know that those five conditions in collective efficacy itself is massive, and we just kinda wanna lay the foundation for why. Why does this why does leadership efficacy matter? And as we said, it's gonna come from the book I got a chance to coauthor with Cheney Donahue on, as you saw there, the confidence to lead. So this is the definition. First, we just kinda begin. We pull up from Goddard and Bales, and it's the we talk about what is the principal's definition for in their sense of efficacy around instructional leadership. It's their the degree to which they, the principals themselves right? They they believe that they have the the skills so they feel capable of organizing, executing the course of action required to support teachers in improving instruction and student learning. So when you're sitting there as a principal and you're thinking, what do I do I have the ability like, whatever the initiative is, whatever it is you're trying to lead your your building through, how confident are you? Do you feel like you have those skills to support your teachers when whatever that is? So think of it a brand new initiative that you have right now that you're trying to lead within your building. How confident are you that you have those skills? So think about your sense of efficacy to help support your teachers in improving instruction. So we talk about why does it matter, kind of what what does the research kinda dig into it. And so as we kinda pull this out from 2020, that got out, bails, and Kim there, you can see the study. The big key is we're just gonna kinda zoom in on this one part here is that principal efficacy for instructional leadership is a strong predictor of collective teacher efficacy. So we're talking about that effect size of collective teacher efficacy of 1.34 when the study had a chance to take a look at from one building to a next that the principal sense of efficacy was always a strong predictor. So as they walked in and they talked to the principals, they they saw a a direct correlation between where was the principal sense of efficacy on a topic to where was it with the teacher. So one of those spots you just kinda think about why does it matter? It's well, if we wanna improve collective teacher teacher efficacy, you saw the slide, it starts with us. And this is kinda that that big opening point. Garth, any point in time, feel free to interrupt me as I jump in. I think just, you know, with the statements around where the central office or or district level leadership fit in. Obviously, this is a little bit more specific to the principal, but I would I would like as a as a former central office administrator, everything that I've looked at around principal efficacy can be also looked at through the lens of kinda district level leader and and overseeing and and working with multiple schools, multiple principals, etcetera. It's that same sense. So as a central office leader, I also have to have that sense of efficacy in how I'm supporting and leading the work to then also influence the efficacy that our principals have. So as you're seeing some of the the the thoughts and ideas and the research behind this, I would definitely put that same level of of layer to it to say, yes. This also applies to me as a district level leader. So as as you see this slide up here on the screen, you're just thinking about think it was 4PM on a Friday, and you as the principal are just walking around your building. You're excited for, hopefully, your weekend, and you walk across classroom, and you come across one of your your teachers who and you're thinking, I'm just doing my final lap. I'm ready to go home. And here you stumble in, and here's a teacher in the room who's still working hard. And they look at you, and I'm looking at the bottom sentence here, faced with setbacks and obstacles that you thought you're walking to a calm room. You're ready to say, have a great weekend, and the person says, why in the world are we doing blank? And they say to you, why are the I'm spending hours doing this. Look. I'm still here on a Friday at 4PM. I wanna be home with my family. Why are we still doing this? And your sense of efficacy impacts how you respond to that moment. Do you you could see it's do you do you persist? Do you potentially give up? Do you take risks? Do you keep going? And if your sense of efficacy is lower and you're like, ah, you know, I I don't really know. I don't really I'm not sure why we're doing this. The odds of you supporting it directly plummet, and we're gonna get into that. So as you're kinda thinking about this, you're just looking at it, like, how are how willing are you to persist through that? It's like I said, it's 4PM. We've all been there. We're walking around. We're like, oh, this is I'm excited for the weekend. Know, we're kind of a in an interesting spot. So we don't collect the teacher efficacies here at 1.34. Where do we place leaders? Garth, we have a chance to to work with schools. Where do people usually say? Higher or lower than point four? I I tend to find that they typically put it pretty high. Yes. So and sometimes we ask you, but for time and sake, we're gonna jump right to the answer. When you go into the Visible Learning MedEx, you'll see school leaders, we fall at point three seven. So we fall just below that hinge point. So sometimes we're wondering, like, well, why is that? It makes one of one kinda ask more questions, kinda dig more into why is it we we fall below. Okay? So when we keep diving in, we say, where does this point three seven come from? And it comes from a variety of sources. When you think about the types of principles, we know that many of you on this Zoom call right now, the effect size within your building, you're probably higher than collective teacher efficacy is higher than that 1.34. You may be at 1.6. Maybe you're at two. You're doing incredible things. We all know if we take a second and we're being honest, we all know school leaders are probably below this point three seven. When we think of some of the folks that you maybe had yourself when you were a teacher, some of the folks you interact with, so we know that it's kind of all over the place. So I always tell the story of when we talk about transformational or instructional leadership, we like to say, which one of these has a a higher effect size on on student achievement in the long run? And I would say, I remember a year when we were brought as an admin team all to a spot, and we spent a full day, and we were trained, and we were told we had to be transformational leaders. Within the very next year, we were brought back to that same location, spent a full day of training about how we were supposed to be instructional leaders. Remember thinking as a principal, my head was spinning, well, what am I actually supposed to be? And what's the what does research say is the higher effect size? And as we take a look at both those columns, Garth, I just ask you, is it possible to be a good principal if you just give up one of those two columns? In my opinion, no. I think we have to we have to have a a sense of understanding, but I also think we have to look at which ones lead to a higher sense of impact. But without the some of the transformational, it's gonna be hard to do the instructional, but I think sometimes we find ourselves living in one silo of this. Yes. And so we look at the two effect sizes. We see that instructional leadership has, you know, three times the impact of transformational. But I'm just gonna go back and say, if if you only live in one of those silos remember, the the effect size is just telling you, if all I do is transformational, my effect size is point one one. If all I do is instructional, my effect size is point four two. You can kinda see maybe where that point three seven blend as a as a total comes from, but it would be impossible to be a great leader by not doing any of the things for transformational. Even though we see the effect size is point one one, that's just saying if we only focus on this side here. So as we keep going digging more into the research, because, say, some of you if you if anybody are fellow dorks like myself, you like to dig in, like to see the the numbers. We jump into this study that came from 2008. Vivian Robinson and some colleagues did the different effects of leadership tools. So if you're a principal and you're you're absolutely fantastic at ensuring an orderly and supportive environment, your effect size is point two seven. And as we see this, just knowing that this is the the role I know that many of us were hired for as principals. This is what we were told that we were supposed to do. This is the role that many of our teachers think is our only job. And if we do that, if we only focus on this, only focus on an early and supportive environment, our effect size is point two seven. As we keep moving along, if we're really great as a administrator at strategic resourcing and that's beyond the the idea of just the budget in a spreadsheet. It's how do we look at all of the the people in our building? How do we look at the our facility? What who is the best adult to work with this group of students? It's all of your resources in total. If you're great at that, your effect size is point three one. So we keep going through the greater planning, coordinating, evaluating, teaching curriculum. You you've now jumped above. Your effect size has hit above this point four two, and now you're seeing you have a a potential greater impact. Arthur, you're say something? Thought I don't if you leaned in or not there. No. I mean, I just I think this is important to start to understand as you're looking at this, where where do you spend your time? Where do you position your time? And and I think sometimes, you know, we we we find ourselves and and you're gonna get to this in a minute, Don, but we find ourselves already thinking about the very first one. And all of a sudden, starting to feel a little bit overwhelmed about the fact that as I move over more, you know, planning, coordinating, evaluating, teaching the curriculum, I have to do that, but I have all these other scenarios. But let's show them what what it can get to and what are the what are the biggest things. Yes. Thank you. So the next one, if you're great at establishing goals and expectations and you'll remember, this was one of those enabling conditions. So as we jump backwards, okay, if you don't have goals and expectations, if your staff doesn't believe we're all heading in the same direction, okay, then you can see why the effect size is point four two because it's pretty important. It's one of those conditions that you can focus on. You can build it within your building. But if this is lacking, obviously, there there would be some trouble. That's one of those conditions. But the last one, let's say you are somebody who you can see promotes and participates in in teacher learning and development. Okay? So you are a principal who is rolling up the sleeves, and I'm just gonna tell you there's a huge difference between attending, okay, teacher learning and development and participating and promoting. Okay? So the so the effect size for that is point eight four. Okay? So that's one way I was gonna jumps off the screen as we're thinking about that. But once again, Garth, is it possible to be a great principal and ignore ensuring an orderly and supportive environment? Absolutely not. And I you know, that's a question that that came in here that mentioned, you know, well, if we don't have an orderly and supportive environment, how do we do the others? Absolutely. I think the key to think about when it comes to your role as a leader is how do you not find yourself just constantly living in that far left column. Correct. You know, it's a matter of yes. We have to we have to have a safe and orderly environment in our in our schools. But if we only if we only stay there, we're missing a huge opportunity when it comes to because, again, what we're talking about here is how do we help, continue to create a sense of collective efficacy within our building? Well, that sense of collective efficacy comes from the opportunities for us to be an active part of the teacher learning and development. And so I just I'm gonna give you an example here, Don, because I I think this is really important for us to kinda maybe put some additional perspective into it. So let's say in your building, you know, one of the things we do at First Educational Resources frequently is we support schools through, like, assessment and grading reform, or we support schools through kind of a recalibration or revisiting of their PLC process. What this means is if we're working on something, let's say that we're trying to make a transition into more effective assessment and grading practices. As a leader, if you say, you know what? Alright. We're gonna do some some professional learning and development around that. I have maybe someone coming in and and supporting along the way, but now here's what's gonna happen. We're gonna put this person in front of the staff, and now I'm either gonna walk out of the room or go sit back on my computer versus engage in the work. There's two very distinct messages that are being shared there. The first message is, we're working on this, but I'm not a part of it. So what message does that tell our teachers? Not that important. The second message is, we're in this together, which means, you know what? Because the reality, whether it's revisiting your PLC process or changing your grading practices or whatever it may be, there are challenges that are going to come up, and they have to see us as an active part of working through those challenges and that process. The more they see that, the more they see us together, the more likely they are going to continue to invest and work through it. And you know what? We're gonna be stronger as a result. Don, anything to add to that? No. It's it's spot on. And as you're probably listening to this, you can see why this slide itself could be an hour plus of a a presentation as we just break it down and and just know that if you're a brand new principal, I'm probably gonna focus even right now, if I were to go into a building, I'd be focusing on it orderly and supportive environment. What system structures do I have to put in place? And I said, specifically, what systems? So if I wanna be over on the right, which is my goal, okay, then what do I need to have in place so I can be with teams, so I can be participating? And if you don't have those systems and structures, then get those in place. But at the same time, that's where I think that and you'll see we make an argument. Your sense of efficacy will also dictate where you drift within this. Because if you're really comfortable and you love the orderly and supportive environment working with folks, sometimes we might use it as an excuse as to why we don't get over to the promoting and participating. Oh, I have this parent meeting I have to get to. Oh, I have to do something else. And we we just we're just gonna make that kind of a transition Cafeteria can't survive without me or the yes. There's all these different things where we feel like, as Don mentioned, we're really good at that. So we tend to find ourselves staying in that. But here's here's something to just keep in mind when we think about it. Because, ultimately, our goal, right, as school systems is we're really trying to focus on improvement. Right? How do we continue to improve as a system? Because as we continue to improve as a system, our students will benefit from that. Well, here's the thing. School wide improvement's unlikely to be adopted. It doesn't matter what school improvement effort we're talking about, whether it's literacy, math, assessment, whatever it may be, unlikely to be adopted unless administrators, us, believe they have the knowledge and skills to execute them well and support teachers where needed. And I think those are the two things to really kinda keep in mind as we're looking at this. We have to believe we have the knowledge and skill set to do it so that we can support our teachers along the way. Now we think about new strategies as a part of this. So let's say again, you're going through and we're we're trying to you know, I'm gonna tie it to something we do. Let's say we're looking at at reassessment practices, you know, that our our building is looking at, you know what? Kids aren't being yet successful. What's our process look like to be able to close those gaps? Or we're looking at our PLC conversations, and we really want to have a clear process for how we're gonna change student outcomes. New strategies, whatever we tackle, unlikely to be implemented unless teams of teachers believe they have the skills and capabilities to put them into practice. So, again, we're we're looking at this. This is this is driven by a lot of different, research that's been done around our belief system. We, first and foremost, as leaders, we have to believe that we have the skill set to lead the improvement efforts and the school wide improvement, and our teachers need to feel that they have the the belief that they have the skills and capabilities to be able to put them into practice and support our students. So, again, this is this is how we it really comes down to what are the things that we can do to be able to put into practice. Now where does this all start? Again, it starts with the principle. So, Don, as you kinda work through, I think there's some really key factors that will help them understand what does this kind of flow look like when it comes to the impact starting with the principle's belief. Yeah. So that study that we referenced before where we got the the definition of a principal sense of efficacy, where that comes from. Also, in this study, what you see here is that what it is you'll notice there is not a direct line from your sense of efficacy as a leader to increase student achievement. Where the line connects is that that bridge there of your sense of efficacy impacts your teacher's sense of efficacy. And so just kinda think about that. But in the book, the confidence to lead, we actually take it a a step further. Okay? We say your sense of efficacy as you're thinking about it. So right now, once again, put that new initiative in your head, whatever it is that you're leading. Okay? Your sense of efficacy to lead that initiative has a direct connection then to your behaviors. Okay? And so I go back to just think of one. I know one year when I was principal, we were doing a literacy initiative, and I was a high school science teacher, and we have teachers. Our classrooms went down to third grade in my building. So how confident, Garth, do you think I was in leading a literacy initiative knowing I was a high school science teacher at the time? What are you thinking, Mike? Going to assume you weren't real confident in that, that you didn't have a high sense of efficacy. Correct. So not at all. So right. So if we think about behaviors, do you think my teacher observation times, I would go in during literacy time? No? Nope. Probably not. You're gonna go in with what you feel most comfortable with. Yeah. If I'm being honest, right, if we're just having a truly honest moment here, do you so as we kinda think about behaviors, do you think I would lead my staff meeting would be around literacy? Do you think when it was time for PD, was I was I deep in there? And the answer to that as we keep going is sometimes no. No. No. But let's think about a topic maybe I was confident in. As we said, maybe it's grading reform. Well, then at our SAP meeting, we're talking about grades. We're diving into it. Then when it comes to PD day, I'm right alongside the teachers, or I'm leading the the sessions. So our sense of efficacy impacts our behaviors, which then impact the teacher beliefs, which then impacts, as you saw from the previous slides, what Garth was talking about. When we feel like we have the knowledge and skills, that impacts our behaviors, which then impacts how well it's being implemented. And from there, the student outcomes we dive into as we see the positive impact. But the argument we make very quickly is that for wondering why something potentially isn't going well, are we taking the time to look in the mirror as leaders and reflect on where is our sense of efficacy? And we have story after story, but only thirteen more minutes to go in this, Garth, as we jump in. So just kinda that's the big thing to reflect on is if you're wondering potentially why isn't going well, where is your sense of efficacy to leave that? Because I know as a principal myself, I saw it time and time again that when I wasn't confident, it wasn't going well. So Donna, if you can just go back for and I know we're getting tight on time. But I just for those of you, whether you're watching live right now or if you're watching this, watching the recording, keep this in your peripheral. Because I do think this is this was I know when I first saw this kind of flowchart transformational in my own thinking too around you know what? You're right. Like, when we weren't getting the outcome, too often we blame what we're working on. You know? It was must not have been the right literacy focus. Or You know, it we're blaming standards based learning as the as the situation that's not leading to the student outcomes. The tough pill for us to swallow is it does go all the way back up to the beginning. We have to then start what was our efficacy, which impacted our behavior. So this, I think, Don, is is so important for our leaders to really process and take time to think about because it is kind of a reality check, but it's a reality check that we need to take on. It is. And this is the one where the district office, and we don't have it on here, but goes directly above this. Right? Where are those district leaders in supporting you? Because the same thing connects to them, that if they're not feeling confident, well, then maybe you're you're meeting with principals. You're not talking about that initiative. Maybe they're avoiding it. They're not asking you how is that going in your building because they're unsure with how to support you. And so they're not coming to you saying, how is that going in your building? What's the the new the new math adoption? How is that going? What's that new resource look like? Because they don't know how to support you in leading it, so they're gonna avoid that as well. So so we just kinda dive in. So as we say, like, collective efficacy typically would start with teachers believing more because we usually wanna jump to them. It starts with us kinda believing differently. So we're gonna go through this part kinda fast, Garth, if you're good with that, as we Yep. Think about it. Collective efficacy, we say, is rarely a teacher problem first. It starts with us as the leaders. And I always just love this quote that when a leader responds to a challenging situation in a calm, optimistic manner, the more likely to positively influence follower's confidence. So just look at those bold letters or words for a second that when we're calm and optimistic, we have a much higher opportunity to positively influence our followers' confidence. And that's in our ability to solve a problem. Okay? It's once again, it's not that we know the answers. It's our ability to solve, and where's our confidence with that? So as we think about pressure has a a really big impact on our sense of efficacy as well. And our efficacy goes up and down as, sometimes pressure, and how does pressure impact that. And so the one story I'm gonna share quickly is one time when when I was principal, I was at an out of district meeting, and that meeting was about thirty minutes from from my school. And the meeting got done, and school got out in thirty five minutes. I knew I was thirty minutes away. So at that moment as principals, what do we do? We rush back to the building because we think that's what we need to do. So I hopped in my car. I'm going down the interstate and going much faster than I probably should. At one point, I'm thinking, why am I going so fast? Am I gonna I need why is this kind of crazy? So I was kinda processing through why is it as a principal we feel the need that if we have thirty minutes to get back, we could get back for those five minutes. Let's get back to our building. And I'm rushing back. And to make this story really short, I sprint into the building. I go to the office. I'm out of breath. I throw all my stuff down. I say hi to the secretary. I I I say hi to three or four students. The the day is already out. The parents are already out. And fifteen minutes later, because of how the contract works, the building was empty. The secretary and I were all that was left. So as we think about that, like, what kind of message was I sending to my staff when I really think about I'm rushing back that I need to get back. I need to be there. And that's where we sometimes say, like, pressure exposes our sense of efficacy sometimes in in ways our staff feels. It's not may not be what we're intending to say, but the amount of pressure impacts, like, how we come across and how our efficacy kinda unfold. And so while I wasn't intending to to say it, like, when I sprinted back to the building, I was kind of saying to our staff, like, I don't really fully trust you to handle this without me, that learning might be optional. Getting into learning, optional things get hard. And also at the bottom, I was teaching my staff that burnout's the price of commitment. That's what if I'm gonna do that, I'm expecting all of you to also do that as well. So I'm keeping going on, Garth, here as we didn't say it. So like I said, well, I didn't say any of those things. Okay? My behavior taught my staff every single one of those with my how I kind of acted. Remember we said your sense of efficacy impacts your behaviors? Because why couldn't my building handle themselves? Like, did I need to rush back for those five minutes when I talked to one staff member? And I feel like that all resonates with all of us. Garth, were gonna say something? I just wanna I'm just gonna make a connecting point to that graphic from before. Your sense of efficacy affected your behavior. Yep. The behavior impacts teachers' beliefs, teachers' collective efficacy. So immediately, unintentionally, as you mentioned, I'm I was the exact same way. We already are starting to lower that sense of efficacy because there's a hidden message there based on that behavior that you're that that I don't trust you to get through this situation or that you need me in order to be successful. So, ultimately, we're already starting to break down that sense of efficacy from our teachers from unintentional behaviors. Correct. Correct. So as we talk about this now, this one, we don't intend to, as you look at this, sometimes people get almost offended by these when you think about some of these behaviors we do, but we're gonna touch on it very quick. Some of these, when we say efficacy is lacking. Okay? This means so, like, for example, learning is optional and things get hard. Canceling meetings, coaching, or PD during busy seasons. And I don't know about all of you and who work in schools. Is there ever a good time to do anything? But if our efficacy is lacking, picture this moment. A teacher walks up to you and says, well, so and so is missing from the team today. Do we really have to meet? And maybe it's that team that you get excited if you don't have to meet. Maybe it's that team that you yourself schedule a dentist appointment during because with it when you think about meeting with them, they give you anxiety. But when your efficacy is lacking, you say, yep. You're right. Let's cancel that meeting, or let's cancel that staff meeting. Because we are sitting here thinking, do we really have to talk about this? We just had parent teacher conferences last night. We're exhausted. And you're right. You're like, yes. I'm looking for reasons to potentially get out of this. Garthi, if you wanna touch on before I keep moving forward? No. I think it's just no matter what. Like you said, any of these scenarios, the one who look at it is we have to like, words matter. This is one thing that I that I wish I would have thought about more as a principal is the the language we use in situations influences how our teachers view those situations. So any of these is just really helping us whether it's just the behavior itself or even, like, the specific things that we say, which we'll get to more. It does impact the ability of how our the, efficacy of our teachers. Yeah. Garth, do you wanna jump into this quote here quick? Yeah. I think because this is really important to to understand. So Bandura back in this goes back now twenty six years ago, but it still holds true today. Explain that when faced with obstacles, setback, and failures, those, meaning leaders, who doubt their capabilities, and that's the keyword here, slacken their efforts, give up, or settle for mediocre solutions. So, again, let's go back to the whole focal point of this webinar, the principal's role in collective efficacy and student outcomes. Alright? So when when we feel like we when we doubt our own capability as leaders, that in turn, unintentionally, maybe allows us to maybe slack in our effort or or energy of what we put into it, which also then can settle for a less than desirable solution. Well, what's a mediocre solution? Not getting the outcome that we're aiming for with our kids. But because we didn't have that sense of belief in what we were doing and leading it, it ultimately allowed us to settle for a less than, desirable solution, which the end result, students aren't getting the outcomes that we want to see versus those that, you know, have a strong belief in the capabilities redouble their effort to master the challenge. And I will say, Don, this is something that I saw absolutely true in both situations. I saw a initiative that we you know, I was a former language teacher. You mentioned science and literacy. Mine was trying to implement a new math focal point. And I remember I didn't have a strong sense of my own my own sense of efficacy, which meant that when I would go in and observe that particular approach to math, I was gonna settle for a mediocre solution because I doubted myself versus something else I felt very strongly in, I know that I put more time, energy, and effort into mastering that challenge, both learning that challenge, but also then being able to support our staff. So I think, again, it just talks about we're talking about student outcomes, starts with what is our own sense of belief around our capabilities to lead said focal point. Yeah. And another keyword here I want you to I'll pick up on is it says you redouble your efforts to master. It doesn't say you have the answers. Right. Okay? That's the big big thing to kinda think about. It's that when you have a strong belief in yourself to be able to solve problems, you redouble your effort to master the challenge. It doesn't say you have the answer. So as you're thinking through that and when you're in that stressful situation, it's okay to say, I don't know. That's a great question, and we're gonna come back to it as a staff, and we're gonna learn more together. Versus some people say, that's a great barrier. That's why it's never going to occur in our building. I want you to always kinda leave here thinking that's a great challenge for us to try to work through and master. And so always said kinda then, like, when my own efficacy was shaky, wobbly, it didn't say internal. It showed up in my behavior. On the flip side, when what efficacious leaders do differently under pressure under pressure. So now you're you feel more efficacious. Now this is when you you say things like, I'm gonna protect PLC time and coaching time. Say that learning is our work. No. We have to meet together. We can't do our chops without this because of whatever that is. But if I told you right now you have to stand in front of your staff and justify why the team has to meet, how confident are you in that? You're right there. You should be able to think about where is your sense of efficacy with that. Okay? And I always think that you I don't trust you to handle this without me. It's that idea of, like, pausing and just asking questions and saying, tell me more. Tell me more. Lead into this. And so then, of course, modeling boundaries saying that it's okay for our staff to know that we we have to celebrate growth, not exhaustion. Too often in education, we're celebrating the person who stays till six or 7PM instead of, we say celebrating the person who can get their job done in the daytime as we're thinking through that. So under pressure. Once again, your sense of efficacy, how does that pop up under pressure? Okay? And so we know kinda getting back to we haven't chat chatted about this much, but the source of efficacy that when you experience success, it reinforces your ability to truly lead. I love this quote from Tom Murray's new book, if haven't had a chance to check it out, that when we can't fix, we won't face, and we can't get where we wanna go if we're not honest about where we are. So we're thinking about our sense of efficacy. If we're not honest about whatever it is we're trying to lead in our building, we're not gonna be able to get there. So you have to let's say one of the first activities you could do is to take a step back and think about the initiatives in your building. If you're a district leader, think about the initiatives your district is doing. Where is your sense of efficacy to be able to lead that within your building? And you'll direct directly see it. And so we say this is I put this on here. This activity you could easily do. As a principle, let's set your top three. What are you working on? Reflect how well is it going, and then reflect on where your sense of efficacy is. And you'll see a correlation between how well is it going in your building and your sense of efficacy. So I always want you to make that connection. Quick activity for your district leader. Do this at your next principle meeting. Kinda dive into that. So so we said your sense of efficacy does lead does impact how well it is going within your building. So, Garth, anything else you wanna add into that? Because I know we are getting No. I think I think that's just a really you know, if you go back to just that quick activity, you know, when we I know people signing up for this webinar probably wanna know, like, what's something I can do as a result of this particular learning? Hopefully, what you're finding from this is there's this you know, there's no magic answer to if I just do this activity, it's gonna magically have our teachers have a higher sense of efficacy. It is it is about the conditions, about the structures. It's about our beliefs in ourselves as leaders. So I think this is a really good activity that you can take a look at. And I think, you know, I this is a hard pill to swallow, but the second part of it, if initiatives are stalling, it's rarely a teacher problem first. And if you go to that next slide, Don, again, just with all, you know, that flowchart, we encourage you. Let's go back there. Let's have some honest reflection around our own sense of belief and efficacy and how that influences our behaviors. Our behaviors are the precursors to the sense of efficacy that our teachers have. And so, again, the the thing is we we know all of you are working hard. You're you're you're putting energy and effort into to all that you do. But I think it's just now this sense of, you know, what is my belief? And I would say, again, focus on our own behaviors, which influence exactly how our teachers view their own sense of efficacy. So we're coming up on the end of the time. You're done. We're gonna go really fast for this. And your sense of efficacy is also connected to, trust. And in the book, we argue there's three types of trust a leader does, and it comes down to the first one being your how you build relationships with your staff. Do do your staff believe that you care about them as people? Next one is do you do you actually follow through on what you say you're gonna do? Integrity, trust. And the last one connects back to everything we've we've been saying. Do your staff believe you're knowledgeable and capable in leading them through? So that's one of those key things we want you to really take a slow down and think about is competence trust is really an important one. And sometimes we think as leaders, it's just all about the relational, but in reality, no. The competence trust has just as much as an impact on student achievement. Kendall, you can take it away from here if you're good to go. I think you can read you can start sharing that. Right? Yes. Yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me back in. The chat was so active, while this was going on, so kudos to you both for leading such an engaging and informative session. I'm just gonna do a quick little segment on Otus, our sponsor for today, and then we're gonna bring Don and Garth back for some questions. I saw some really good ones come in, but I was, like, taking some notes while y'all were chatting. And the word that just kept coming to mind was validating. Everyone in the chat was like, wow. I can relate to that. This was so helpful or so well said. So just thank you everyone for being here with us and engaging. During today's session, Don and Garth talked about how collective efficacy grows when a team can really look back and see what they've accomplished together. To do that, to see that, you need evidence. Right? And in most school districts, that evidence tends to be, not always, but can be scattered across systems. You've got your rosters and your student information system. You've got your state test scores, your benchmark, your curriculum assessments. Everything kind of has its own place. Otus, today's webinar sponsor, brings it all together in one place. So you're working from that full picture instead of piecing things together. And once evidence is in one place, it becomes incredibly useful to really everyone in your district. So the tools that teachers use every day, like assessments, grading tools, portfolios, student progress monitoring plans, those are also connected to tools that administrators are using to see and report on what's happening across schools and classrooms. So thinking about our session today, we heard earlier about the role of instructional leaders and how important that is alongside, other leadership strategies. When every classroom is connected, you can really see whether the programs you all are implementing are working the way they were designed and then have better conversations with your teams when pivots are needed. So as a result of really building that connected infrastructure, and everyone's seeing evidence of learning is that you can actually use your student data and that evidence in a way that matters to your role. So kinda thinking about the school ecosystem, administrators can see which schools, grade levels, or subgroups they need to focus on. Teachers can group for differentiated instruction. Students can see their own growth. They know what to work on next. They begin to know themselves as learners, and families can also get a clear view of how their child is progressing. So this is just kind of like a 30,000 foot view of how Otus connects your student evidence to tools that your school community can use. A lot of what Otus does and, what connects to today's topic is that continuous improvement cycle that you all are embracing in your schools. I mean, you look at where you are, decide what to focus on, act, adjust, repeat, do it all over again, and Otus is really built to match that cycle. So it works the same way in every classroom and school across your district. If you'd like to learn more or continue that conversation about connecting your evidence of learning through Otus, we're at otus.com. I'll drop our link in the webinar chat as well just for folks in case you need some help there locating us, but we appreciate you being with us, and we do have some time for some questions. I did see one come up a few times, Don and Garth, that I wanna toss to you, and then I'll see if you all had any, other questions that you saw coming. I'm seeing Deborah's in the chat. While you're looking for that, Kendall, I just want to again, for for those of you that are that are potentially looking at a system to better house information, communicate, student learning, share data with each other, I cannot recommend Otus enough for you. When I think about when I was a principal and a director of teaching learning, we had all these different things going on in different places, especially as we were going through kinda revamping our PLC process and especially our our when we're moving to standards based grading. It is I just I wanna give an extra shout out to Otus on this because it is a fantastic platform built by educators. So they understand, you know, exactly what it is that that schools are needing. So I just wanted to give you, just a little extra attention on that. I know sometimes, Kendall, as the representative from Otus, you're you don't wanna share too much. But for those listening, it's a fantastic platform. Thank you. We appreciate that. It's always nice party partnering with you all as well. So we did get some questions around teacher morale. How do school leaders, principals handle or address teachers who might be outliers? So somebody specifically kind of described, you know, they hear what you say. They see the examples. They're showing up. They're participating, but they're only doing it because they have to. Any, like, quick strategies or thoughts on that particular question on sustaining teacher I guess, gaining and sustaining teacher morale in your buildings? Garth, you okay if I jump in? Yeah. Go for it. So when we think of efficacy, in one of Jenny's books, she talks about the as we think about a a person like that, so behavior is always communication. Right? So why is it we're seeing resistance? Why is it potentially sometimes that morale is low? And we always like to connect it back to their sense of efficacy and whatever that topic is. Maybe their efficacy is currently lower. So why is it lower? As we kinda dive in and ask them some questions about, you know, when they're thinking about the stages of implementation, Is it that they haven't had success in the past? Is it that they felt really confident in what they were doing before? But now this new resource has them really anxious. Maybe they felt great about the new thing they're doing before, but now as they see this new math curriculum or a new platform, they get pretty anxious, and they wonder, I don't know how I'm gonna support my students. And so what always say is no teacher wants to look silly in front of their students. So maybe the resistance we're seeing comes from maybe they're they're lacking efficacy in something. So I always like to say behavior is communication. Right? So how can we go back and really dig in with them and say, where are you at right now? And we don't want anybody going through the motions. We want people being invested in it. If they're going through the motions or maybe they're also thinking this too shall pass because I've waited here long enough. I if I just wait you out long enough, and we as principals do the same thing. We think if we just wait out that district office long enough, I'll be fine. Garth, anything you wanna add on to that? No. I think it's it's a great point because the reality is if if we're all taking a a very deep reflective look at that has been past experiences for a lot of our teachers. Right? We have tried something and and moved away from it. And so this this has to be a part of that messaging around this is what we're committed to. This is we know this is gonna have a significant impact on student learning. But, Don, if you can, if you can go back, if it's okay, Kendall, for him to go back to the slide deck and go to the four ways leaders shape collective belief, I think that also helps with this, Don, When you think about what are some of those scenarios that allow us to get past, you know, maybe how do we help kinda build that morale and that belief within our buildings? Do wanna talk through that quickly? Yeah. And we didn't get a chance to dive into this, but it this is connected to the four sources of efficacy. So Bandura came up with the four source of efficacy. So we as leaders okay. How are we helping our teachers know these are the mastery experiences we had, okay, that we thought we were trying something we thought was incredibly difficult. We weren't gonna be successful, but, actually, we were. We accomplished this together. So how are you helping your staff have mastery experiences? Second one, how are you helping your teachers see other people succeed at what they think is impossible. So if they see a teacher who's just like them, who's able to do it with this group of students who they didn't think was possible or this new resource, that they're able to see that. So how are you creating those experiences for your staff? The third source of ex efficacy, which we as leaders have a huge one, is social persuasion. How are you able to convince them, talk them about, no. You can't do this. Remember when we did that change in the past? Remember how you successfully were. You thought it was gonna be difficult, but look at what you did. And so how are you helping them see and be convinced that they're able to do it? The last one then is the emotional psychological states. Like, what are we kind of tone? What kind of culture? What are what are you what are we allowing to the emotional, like, tone? What are we tolerating? And then we think of, like, who is that team that if you know right now you had go meet with after this webinar, you kinda go, ugh, and you'd be drained. Why are we allowing that to happen versus that team of teachers we know we're gonna go meet with because we'd be excited to go meet with them? So how are you allowing that to to be tolerated within your building? So these are those four sources very quickly for you as you're thinking about them. And I think, again, something to just kinda think about. Often, what's, kind of perceived or presented as resistance or low morale It's just that there are a few few pieces that, some gaps that we need to help fill. So they do have that confidence in what we're doing, the impact we're collectively making within our building, and and these that's why I wanted Don to talk about, like, these leader behaviors shape our collective belief as a building. Excellent. Perfect. We've hit the end of our time here. Have. Don and Garth, you did mention this throughout, but I know this was a very small segment of a much larger professional development, I guess, day or series that you do. Did you wanna just quickly talk about anyone who's still for anyone who's still with us here today, how they can get in touch with you, kind of evaluate needs in their district, and maybe learn more about the models that you bring on-site, I believe, in addition to virtual. Hey, Garth. You wanna do that? Yeah. So a a couple of things. One, I did just put our email addresses in the chat box, but we'll also make sure in the follow-up information that's sent out, our contact information is there for you. But as Kendall mentioned, the primarily what we do is we do go in and work directly with, school leaders, district level leaders. Don does has a whole set of, kinda workshops and coaching he does around competency lead and leader efficacy. But we also then work directly with teachers. And and really, as I said at the start, our focal point you know, we've been fortunate to work with over 2,500 school districts internationally. Our focal point is really kind of understanding what your current reality is in supporting you to the outcome that you want. We don't come in with anything prescriptive. We come in to support where you're at and how we can help you move forward. So that information, again, our emails are there, but also feel free to, you know, include our information in in what goes out to all of the attendees. Even if you just wanna hop on a call and just kinda talk about your reality and we can brainstorm, we're happy to do so. We would just love to learn more about, kinda what people are looking for. You two are the best. Thank you so much for leading the session, for sharing your knowledge with the EdWeek and Otus audience, and thank you to all for being here with us. We appreciate you learning with us, and join us again for another Otis webinar through EdWeek. Thank you. Thank you.